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Meta / metaphysics
This is the channel for the discussion of metaphysical and parapsychological subjects. Please keep discussion of these topics to this channel and out of the rest of the server.
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People do not change their habits and behaviors based on just having a realization and deciding to, but through a new pattern of reconditioning, which requires inputs.
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Lol now you sound like me! Exactly, people don't change by deciding to change, they change as the result of conditioning! 🙂
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By your OWN admission thinking is a bottom up process NOT top down. You don't just have a thought and have it magically change your autopilot behavior, it requires being reconditioned to new inputs.
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Deleted User 5/21/2020 6:11 AM
I know that the concept of conditioning is literally psychology 101
6:11 AM
But I see it as an incredibly complicated thing
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You have to believe this also if you believe any of what youve said before about free will.
6:11 AM
Or else you're being inconsistent.
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Yeah see above, I agree 100 %, I'm not really sure what you're responding to that you think goes against this
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That suffering is an input. You can't just remove it and expect to not have potential negative inputs , it exists for a reason.
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Deleted User 5/21/2020 6:12 AM
I see it as the quite profound combination of both
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Oh I see Lily
6:12 AM
Yeah suffering is absolutely an input
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I would agree. Reality is messy.
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Deleted User 5/21/2020 6:13 AM
Convection currents of adaptation. Circulating from bottom up, into top down, which regulates the bottom up, which gives rise to the top down
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Again, I don't think there really are easy answers.
6:13 AM
Yeah, basically
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But again, people for who it has fallen away completely tell us that they function more efficiently rather than less
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Deleted User 5/21/2020 6:13 AM
Conscious is top down Subconscious is bottom up
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Life still delivers conditioning in each moment, it just no longer includes a fictitious story about what could and should have been in the past, and how the future needs to look
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Deleted User 5/21/2020 6:13 AM
That's why you literally have thoughts and memories
6:14 AM
Bubble up to the surface
6:14 AM
Its super complex but also pretty fascinating
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I know that the concept of conditioning is literally psychology 101 But I see it as an incredibly complicated thing
The classic illustration given in this teaching is that of the sperm and the egg. Life creates the organism when the sperm and the egg join and the DNA is constructed. And in every single moment after conception, life grows the organism, shapes the organism, conditions it, lives it
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Deleted User 5/21/2020 6:15 AM
And shake, yeah that's an important message
6:15 AM
The default state of the subconscious is to invent a fictitious story
6:15 AM
That's why everything feels worse than it actually is when something bad happens (edited)
6:16 AM
Its the job of your conscious, basically you as a cognitive agent, to constrain that story with reason (edited)
6:16 AM
Or else it explodes and you become depressed
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Suffering is based on a feeling of separation from life, the belief that we're an independent entity with complete volition. When we see that we've never been separate from life, and that our thoughts and actions happen on the same basis as our breathing, heartbeat and digestion, all the uncomfortableness falls away
6:16 AM
It's always been life living us
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Deleted User 5/21/2020 6:18 AM
It also doesn't help that the subconscious interprets many arbitrary things as deeply symbolic
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Even after the fiction falls away, we still feel like we have free will in each moment, but there is no longer the uncomfortableness about how life should turn out and could have turned out
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Deleted User 5/21/2020 6:19 AM
Right
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Again, the reason I buy into this description is because I've listened for hours and hours to people I can tell experience exactly that, unbroken peace of mind
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Deleted User 5/21/2020 6:19 AM
So, chalking it up to destiny? Thats what I do at least
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Yeah
6:19 AM
Exactly
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Yeah our brains are so good at finding patterns that they frequently find them where there are none.
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Pareidolia
6:20 AM
Learned about that from my sasquatch research, lol
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"hot hands" myth, all sorts of things.
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I'll leave a link to my favourite teacher, all his videos are way too long but I think even listening for ten minutes you can tell he's not bullshitting about this, he's talking about his direct experience
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One of my favorites was they had to change the algorithm for the iPod shuffle to be LESS random to make people think it was MORE random, because otherwise if it played two songs in a row from the same album or something...
6:21 AM
XDD Nice Lily
6:22 AM
Make up your own mind, but this guy at least claims that he no longer experiences any remnants of guilt, blame, pride, worries and expectations
6:22 AM
He sometimes talks about a life-threatening illness that he had after suffering fell away, and how even intense pain no longer interferes with his peace of mind
6:23 AM
And like all the teachers, explains in detail that the absence of suffering does not mean a loss of cognitive powers or a lack of intellectual functioning, etc
6:24 AM
All it means is the end of uncomfortableness
6:24 AM
The end of psychological resistance to life unfolding (edited)
6:25 AM
brb
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Deleted User 5/21/2020 6:27 AM
Viewing your own life as if you were a spectator
6:27 AM
Is surprisingly decent at coping with ridiculous amounts of trauma
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For good reason
6:31 AM
I've sort of not talked about the metaphysical background the teaching offers
6:31 AM
(In the actual sense, not the tulpamancer sense where metaphysical = supernatural lol)
6:32 AM
So it says that suffering is the result of completely identifying as a this body/mind organism living in a real world
6:32 AM
But that in "reality", the body/mind organism is only one aspect of the human being
6:33 AM
The much "deeper" aspect is consciousness
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Deleted User 5/21/2020 6:33 AM
So you're a dualist
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Hahaha well the funny thing is, these teachings come from a Hindu school called advaita, which translates as non-duality
6:34 AM
The reason it's called non-duality is because it says both perspectives are valid
6:34 AM
That of being a body/mind organism, and that of being an experience arising in consciousness
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Ughhh, don't make me agree with this, don't do it, lol.
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Lmao
6:35 AM
I thought you'd voiced vehement disagreement with this notion in the past?
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Deleted User 5/21/2020 6:37 AM
Everything always comes back to the nature of reality doesn't it
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Haha pretty much
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I think it's a handy stance to adopt at certain points in time. And the comment by Catherine about viewing as a spectator helping deal with trauma also rings true. But this is how I wound up in the place of adopting different viewpoints based on which was most beneficial at the time. 😆
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Lily has heard me rattle off this description a thousand times before, but consciousness is described as having two aspects
6:39 AM
Awareness, also sometimes referred to as "witnessing", and the sense of "I am", a sense of existence
6:39 AM
In each moment, you are witnessing life unfolding
6:40 AM
No matter the circumstance, no matter your actions, as long as you're not asleep, you're witnessing
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Meditation is the art of letting all other aspects of the experience fall away until only consciousness remains
6:40 AM
Awareness aware of itself, and a sense of "I'm alive" (edited)
6:41 AM
One of the concepts says that both dreams and our waking life are experiences arising in our consciousness, only the content is different
6:42 AM
In both cases, there is a witnessing awareness, and a sense of being
6:42 AM
This is the "core" of the human being, and it's peaceful by nature
6:42 AM
But it's completely overlooked by humanity at large
6:43 AM
Because suffering distracts us from it
6:44 AM
What if the point of life is not to win and be successful? What if the point is simply to have an experience that delivers sometimes pleasure, sometimes pain?
6:51 AM
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AquiloZephyrus 5/21/2020 12:04 PM
Hello does anyone else have this trippy space gem?
12:04 PM
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Deleted User 5/21/2020 6:56 PM
I only have a small collection of stones
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Finally something I'd truly consider "meta" ;P
7:11 PM
"Intense frequency" of what? Is something moving really fast inside the mineral?
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AquiloZephyrus 5/21/2020 7:44 PM
@Maharani it is moldavite, tekite, space gem
7:45 PM
i am planning to put it under the new moon light tomorrow
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Just wondering what they mean by "frequency", which is a word that describes something related to movement. I wasn't aware there was anything moving in a mineral
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AquiloZephyrus 5/21/2020 7:46 PM
the energy it produces if one innately feel it or it is trained
7:48 PM
i had a wild time observing its old energy but I am planning to smoke dmt and meditate on the moldavite eventually
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What type of "energy" is produced?
7:51 PM
Have you smoked DMT before?
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Lula! | 👻 5/21/2020 7:58 PM
I only have a small collection of stones
@Deleted User Stones? Wait, what are these for? 😳
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Deleted User 5/21/2020 8:07 PM
they sit on my altar (edited)
8:12 PM
they each serve a different use in magick tho
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AquiloZephyrus 5/21/2020 8:35 PM
@Maharani i have smoked little under half a gram of DMT, breaking through 5 times and moldavite has ET energy
8:38 PM
@Deleted User sigil wise i made a few. i made one of my name
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Lula! | 👻 5/21/2020 8:44 PM
I want to know more about this. I've been trying to figure out where to start. ☹
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